This chat is to help legacy webOS (Palm/HP Pre, Touchpad and related devices) stay in touch as a back-up to the forums. To join the conversation, install webOS SimpleChat on your device or emulator! The log contains the last 100 messages sent, newest on top, and is read-only for now.

mazzinia: :P

2022-01-18 16:00:30 UTC

codepoet: email the company and demand your money back!

2022-01-18 16:00:26 UTC

mazzinia: meanwhile it cracked by itself around the speaker, and has 2 other points showing weirdness

2022-01-18 16:00:09 UTC

mazzinia: yeh but it's beyond absurd... i opened it 4 times in 11 years

2022-01-18 15:59:34 UTC

codepoet: those stupid back cases are so fragile

2022-01-18 15:57:52 UTC

mazzinia: and the back is breaking by itself, too...

2022-01-18 15:56:14 UTC

mazzinia: battery shown 81%, so either it bugged bigtime or ....

2022-01-18 15:55:49 UTC

mazzinia: put back the original battery, and it booted once I plugged the cable

2022-01-18 15:53:57 UTC

mazzinia: put the now defective battery that I got from sumi years ago, and i got a brief battery with question mark with the cable connected, then off

2022-01-18 15:53:34 UTC

mazzinia: it went down , plugging a cable didn't change anything, removing and reinserting the battery same

2022-01-18 15:52:54 UTC

mazzinia: mmmm I think I've issues with the pre3 ... need to find a battery ( sumi is very hard to catch ) or it's starting to fail

2022-01-18 15:52:17 UTC

codepoet mini: But Gonrai, if you like Enyo, why not make us something for webOS?!

2022-01-18 12:05:25 UTC

codepoet mini: The Palm version of promises that pre-dates the es6 implementation was called futures. You had to include their foundations if you wanted to use it, and man is it hard to read the code if you do. Promises still aren't great (compared to async/await in C# for example) but they're somewhat readable compared to what Palm invented. I just stick with regular old callbacks with context passing for my webos apps.

2022-01-18 12:04:41 UTC

God Ginrai: all the other times you would use promises don't normally happen, because most of the time you are instead just watching for changes in the redux store.

2022-01-18 05:56:40 UTC

God Ginrai: so you basically just do the basic promise w/ fetch and that's it.

2022-01-18 05:55:57 UTC

God Ginrai: With React, they've eliminated most needs for promises in basic applications, because of things like Redux.

2022-01-18 05:55:18 UTC

God Ginrai: funny enough, I rarely even get to use Promises in my current job.

2022-01-18 05:53:44 UTC

God Ginrai: plus, it saves you from having to pass callbacks all the time.

2022-01-18 05:52:41 UTC

God Ginrai: They perform mostly the same function as callbacks, but they allow you to continue working whereas a function w/ a callback will block any code after it until it is finished.

2022-01-18 05:52:16 UTC

God Ginrai: Promises are a bit complex, but they just help you do things asynchronously easier.

2022-01-18 05:51:18 UTC

God Ginrai: kindof.

2022-01-18 05:51:01 UTC

Grabber5.0: Seemed like another way to do callbacks

2022-01-18 05:50:49 UTC

God Ginrai: nah, promises is an ES6 thing

2022-01-18 05:50:36 UTC

Grabber5.0: I can't remember if both of these came from enyo or not.. futures/promises, esp when they were nested deeply.

2022-01-18 05:50:20 UTC

Grabber5.0: *dusts off brain cells*

2022-01-18 05:49:17 UTC

God Ginrai: Like what in particular?

2022-01-18 05:48:26 UTC

Grabber5.0: It was a pretty big departure from what I was used to

2022-01-18 05:48:23 UTC

Grabber5.0: To a point. I struggled to understand some of the newer concepts I'd never seen before. I'm also not a fan of too many levels of abstraction.

2022-01-18 05:47:52 UTC

God Ginrai: You could easily follow the lifecycle through the calls.

2022-01-18 05:46:44 UTC

God Ginrai: Enyo's code was pretty easy to read and understand in the debugger.

2022-01-18 05:46:27 UTC

God Ginrai: The library itself was actually kind of neat. It was much easier to debug enyo problems than any in the more recent JS frameworks.

2022-01-18 05:46:16 UTC

God Ginrai: yup

2022-01-18 05:45:30 UTC

Grabber5.0: But it was probably too ambitious

2022-01-18 05:45:05 UTC

Grabber5.0: I suppose they were trying to limit/prevent the need for 3rd party libraries for app development

2022-01-18 05:44:45 UTC

God Ginrai: IMO, Enyo was the right direction, but as a library suffered from a couple of problems: 1) Before its time. Class-based inheritance ended up being added directly into ECMAScript w/ ES6. 2) Very specific filesystem structures were necessary 3) Tried to be an "all-in-one" framework, down to having its own log commands.

2022-01-18 05:43:41 UTC

Grabber5.0: Some teams apparently just don't seem to care how slowly their pages load

2022-01-18 05:42:12 UTC

God Ginrai: well, that's less because people are using fat libraries and more because they are demanding more out of the browser, but I get your point. :P

2022-01-18 05:41:00 UTC

Grabber5.0: I'm just not impressed

2022-01-18 05:40:54 UTC

Grabber5.0: Or I'm just an old curmudgeon that doesn't want to change until I have no choice

2022-01-18 05:40:43 UTC

Grabber5.0: My biggest complaint is how horribly slow and bloated so many websites have gotten because everyone is using 50 fat libraries on them.

2022-01-18 05:40:17 UTC

God Ginrai: It's like how you should know how memory allocation works so that if your higher-level functions start breaking, you know how to debug them.

2022-01-18 05:36:30 UTC

God Ginrai: I think people need to know how to write real HTML, but I also believe in optimizing it out for efficient development.

2022-01-18 05:36:07 UTC

Grabber5.0: I prefer to just write real HTML

2022-01-18 05:35:27 UTC

God Ginrai: How so? you can still perform DOM interactions in the render function that executes after the render.

2022-01-18 05:34:35 UTC

God Ginrai: I actually really liked the fact that Enyo allowed you to drop the HTML. That saved a bunch of typing and just made things easier. It was still easy to tell the HTML heirarchy w/o HTML tags due to the way enyo objects existed and rendered, as each had a "tag" associated with them. One thing I hate about React is that it makes me write out pseudo-HTML in my JS, when I shouldn't even need to write any in the first place. (Enyo has spoiled me)

2022-01-18 05:32:50 UTC

codepoet mini: Seems like it was a pretty tight community. We never had anything like that at MS or Amazon

2022-01-17 23:38:50 UTC

codepoet mini: Crazy how small the world is with Lisa and Dieter getting married

2022-01-17 23:38:07 UTC

codepoet mini: Wow quite the journey! Well even if you'd gone FT seems like it wouldn't have lasted very long anyway

2022-01-17 23:37:40 UTC

Grabber5.0: I was kinda thinking Jason did too but couldn't remember his name and didn't want to call him "WOSQI guy" ^_^

2022-01-17 23:35:16 UTC

Grabber5.0: Oh yeah -it was Arthur

2022-01-17 23:34:33 UTC

dkirker: Or Arthur Thornton.

2022-01-17 23:33:42 UTC

dkirker: You might be thinking of Patrick Roberts or Jason Robitaille. I was an intern in 2008 and 2009.

2022-01-17 23:33:27 UTC

dkirker: I ended up casually mentioning it in the Campfire chat we had. Anyway, we had an all hands after Meg took over and there seemed to be a renewed interest in webOS. I asked Gloria if maybe there was a chance to have my contract renewed -- this was like 4 days before it was to end -- and she terminated it on the spot, but said she'd pay the last 4 days out, because I had told others when she didn't want me to; like they wouldn't know eventually, but she probably wanted to control the narrative. That even caught Lisa by surprise. But by then it wasn't as exciting as it was in 2008 or 2009.

2022-01-17 23:32:11 UTC

dkirker: Oct 2011. I had started in March 2011 or so as a work to hire contractor on the WebKit team. That didn't seem to work out because of said rookie intern mistake. Basically, when I interned at Palm in 2009 I had told HR that Cal Poly had dismissed me at the end of the spring quarter and I was appealing it. I then told them the appeal was successful. Apparently all that had been put in my file was that I wasn't being honest and wasn't in school. At least that is how it was interpreted when I was trying to convert in 2011. I ended up having to go talk to Ari Jaaksi about it and that was hard to actually get through to him. He seemed "satisfied" but I don't think he was too much. Anyway, I didn't know how to advocate for myself back then and it seemed no one was advocating for me as I wasn't hearing anything. So, I was working with Lisa Brewster to hop over to her team doing app reviews as she wanted a more technical person. That ended up happening and I started working there as a contractor. My boss on paper was a woman named Gloria (this will matter in a min), but I got my daily tasking from Lisa (so glad). Anyway, fast forward, the Leopocolypse happened and things were gloomy for like a month and a half. I had been told that my contract wasn't going to be renewed -- I was trying to convert or renew -- and I was told "other contractors in dev rel will have their contracts renewed, but please don't go telling people yours won't be" by Gloria.

2022-01-17 23:32:07 UTC

Grabber5.0: Ok, confession time.. I can never find my drill bits and driver bits to save my life. Who's with me? 🤦‍♂️

2022-01-17 23:32:07 UTC

Grabber5.0: I remember someone doing an internship.. didn't remember it being you

2022-01-17 23:25:00 UTC

Grabber5.0: Did I know you were a Palm insider?

2022-01-17 23:24:02 UTC

dkirker: Yeah. That's why it "didn't bother us". It sucked...

2022-01-17 23:19:30 UTC

codepoet mini: So when did you part ways with Palm? (or HP?)

2022-01-17 23:19:10 UTC

codepoet mini: Microsoft got desperatw enough to solicit crappy apps like that to drive up the Windows Phone app store numbers

2022-01-17 23:18:49 UTC

dkirker: Hahaha Yeah. There weren't so many fart apps as there were eBook apps (some company was taking digitized books and slapping them in to their app template and submitting each title as its own app -- 20 or more at a time) and then apps that just had terrible UI.

2022-01-17 23:17:36 UTC

codepoet mini: Anything but validating fart apps for a living!

2022-01-17 23:15:21 UTC

codepoet mini: I worked on the Kindle tablets in their early days, then they re-orged me into the AppStore. I was like no way, and maneuvered my way into Biz Dev for Kindle, then product management

2022-01-17 23:15:02 UTC

dkirker: Yeah, as an app reviewer. Since I had engineering background I could help be a technical liaison. There's some long discussion about how this all ended up. (But my take-away was to basically avoid complete transparency with HR. Rookie intern mistake that later bit me in the ass... )

2022-01-17 23:13:17 UTC

codepoet mini: I didn't know you worked on the App Catalog! B-)

2022-01-17 23:10:17 UTC

dkirker: Hahaha Oh yeah.... Many of those were allowed in to the app catalog before there was an app catalog team to review apps. Before us QA would review apps. Basically just "does it work? Let it in." Once there was an app catalog team we had some standards established.

2022-01-17 23:08:36 UTC

codepoet mini: No porn, as far as I can tell, but lots and lots of babe, bikini and cleavage apps

2022-01-17 22:30:56 UTC

mazzinia: didn't realize that there were rated apps :P

2022-01-17 21:45:32 UTC

codepoet: you can see it at work with the new "safe search" feature on the web version:

2022-01-17 21:22:14 UTC

codepoet: For those who prefer the little thrill, an upcoming version of the App Museum will let you disable the filter...

2022-01-17 21:21:49 UTC

codepoet: The AppMuseum back-end now supports a flag for adult apps. Most of the "bikini" and "boob" apps don't work now, so filtering them out is not just a favor to parents. If you spot one, send me the AppId so I can flag it.

2022-01-17 21:21:22 UTC

codepoet: Snowed in here in north east Ohio, so doing some maintenance today... drPodder has been updated to fix a dashboard theme bug My update to @​Grabber5.0's GPS Viewer has been pushed to the Museum

2022-01-17 16:19:58 UTC

codepoet: I’ll sign you up to beta test…when I get that far ;)

2022-01-16 23:02:55 UTC

Poehoes: Wow, i would be interested in home assistant!

2022-01-16 22:32:31 UTC

nomad84: Failed to create the access token. WS Command auth/long_lived_access_token is not implemented in provide_hass.

2022-01-16 13:37:11 UTC

nomad84: nope

2022-01-16 13:37:10 UTC


2022-01-16 13:36:30 UTC

nomad84: I wonder if this has an API

2022-01-16 13:36:29 UTC

codepoet: Well, in theory, supporting multiple back-ends should be fairly easy. Once I get this one respectable, I'll try a couple others. I'd like to make a 'demo' back end for those without any home automation to try it, one for Hue directly, one for Hoobs, and one for Home Assistant. As long as a server can do simple REST and has some form of list-rooms, list-lights, get-state and set-state it should be able to plug-in to my app

2022-01-16 13:34:10 UTC

nomad84: I would absolutely testdrive this! :)

2022-01-16 13:30:22 UTC

nomad84: too bad I decommissioned my homebridge instance a couple of weeks ago

2022-01-16 13:30:13 UTC

codepoet: Thanks :D here's where I finished yesterday

2022-01-16 13:19:58 UTC

mazzinia: not bad at all

2022-01-16 13:07:00 UTC

nomad84: That looks really cool! :)

2022-01-16 05:45:20 UTC

codepoet: Coming along...

2022-01-15 21:57:11 UTC

nomad84: Sure thing! Today is a little busy but I can look into it! :)

2022-01-15 18:45:40 UTC

Grabber5.0: I really doubt I did much besides add the call to the media broadcast service

2022-01-15 17:41:21 UTC

Grabber5.0: I need to dust off my dev archive.. I can't remember if I had to tweak it beyond making it fit the Pre3 screen. I know there were still some issues there

2022-01-15 17:40:47 UTC

Grabber5.0: It never left beta for various reasons, so I'm not surprised

2022-01-15 17:39:49 UTC

codepoet: It looks like I do not

2022-01-15 17:39:14 UTC

Grabber5.0: If you don't have a copy of NaNPlayer in your archives let me know

2022-01-15 17:38:19 UTC

Grabber5.0: I didn't mind too much, but that's too much to ask the average user to do

2022-01-15 17:23:04 UTC

Grabber5.0: I had to replace the stock app with NaNPlayer to get it to work

2022-01-15 17:22:43 UTC

Grabber5.0: It was more than just the top level - only or whatever the stock music app is has permission

2022-01-15 17:22:18 UTC

codepoet: Lol at enyo bugs!

2022-01-15 17:06:26 UTC

codepoet: Ooh interesting. Changing the appid for drpodder would cause migration problems for everyone, but it'd be fun to experiment with

2022-01-15 17:06:04 UTC

Grabber5.0: Here's the funky enyo alignment problem I was talking about a day or two ago:

2022-01-15 16:50:46 UTC

Grabber5.0: I feel like it should be possible, but nothing I tried worked

2022-01-15 16:10:35 UTC

Grabber5.0: I could only get it to work if I used the full music player app id. I dug into changing service permissions but never got it to work

2022-01-15 16:09:33 UTC

Grabber5.0: So only stock apps send song info to connected bt stereos for display

2022-01-15 16:08:14 UTC

Grabber5.0: I started tinkering with it, and found that only com.palm apps had permission to use the BT media info broadcast service

2022-01-15 16:07:27 UTC

Grabber5.0: How much digging have you done into webOS native services?

2022-01-15 16:06:28 UTC

codepoet: I don't know that app, I'll have to check it out

2022-01-15 16:04:24 UTC

Grabber5.0: Ok it wasn't in DMs. He actually said that on Twitter in reply to me when I found him on Twitter and asked what he was up to, and mentioned NaNPlayer

2022-01-15 16:03:30 UTC

Grabber5.0: I feel like I broke a promise though

2022-01-15 15:42:07 UTC

codepoet mini: Ha, I think all concerned parties have moved on by now...

2022-01-15 15:41:15 UTC

Grabber5.0: Maybe I should redact the app name ^_^

2022-01-15 15:40:39 UTC

Grabber5.0: I don't think he wanted the be too public about it

2022-01-15 15:40:24 UTC

codepoet mini: Ah

2022-01-15 15:40:20 UTC

Grabber5.0: No. I think it was in Twitter DMS

2022-01-15 15:39:54 UTC

codepoet mini: Is there a forum post from him on the subject? Would love to read

2022-01-15 15:39:28 UTC